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Friday, June 12, 2009

BAE pitching Typhoon as F-22 eludes



Japan should consider adopting the Eurofighter Typhoon as its next mainstay fighter jet even if the U.S. lifts its ban on exporting the stealthy F-22 Raptor, representatives of a U.K.-based defense and aerospace company said Thursday in Tokyo. The Air Self-Defense Force is eager to replace about 50 of its aging F-4s with the high-tech F-22 for its agility and high stealth capabilities. But recent reports indicate Washington is unlikely to sell its latest and greatest airplane to just anyone, while others say the ¥25 billion plane is too expensive. Andy Latham, BAE System Inc. vice president in charge of Typhoon exports, told reporters that since the Typhoon costs only about ¥10 billion, it presents "an effective non-U.S. solution" with significant benefits for Japan. The Typhoon, made by a consortium of European manufacturers, is already used by the air forces in Europe. Although export of the F-22 would be strictly controlled to prevent its military technology from falling into the wrong hands, Latham said selling the Typhoon will take a "no black box approach." The biggest difference between the two planes will be the "ability to offer Japan's industry a significant package of work," he said, explaining that the consortium could allow licensed manufacturing of the fighter in Japan and integration with Japanese equipment. As for the Typhoon's lack of stealth capability, however, BAE System's Craig Penrice said stealth technology should not be considered an issue. "Stealth is not the silver bullet answer that some might have you think," the former Royal Air Force pilot said, adding that the Typhoon has overall countermeasures against radar detection, including reduced infrared emissions. By comparison, stealth is "not cheap, not low maintenance and not fully exportable," he said. In total, Tokyo is considering six candidates to replace its F-4EJ fighters, including the U.S. F-35, which is still under development. BAE has been pitching the Typhoon to Japan for years, although Tokyo and Washington have a strong defense alliance that leaves little room for non-U.S. bidders, Latham said. Despite recent reports indicating the U.S. is unlikely to provide the F-22 to Japan, Defense Minister Yasukazu Hamada said Tuesday the fighter "remains an option that will be pursued." Japan's strong interest in the aircraft is based not only on its capabilities but also on its compatibility with the U.S. Air Force, which the ASDF would work closely with in the event Japan is attacked. Some observers also say Tokyo is eager to update its aircraft with the most up-to-date fighter available so it can claim air superiority over China, which is continuing to build its military power. A Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C surveillance plane made its first patrol Thursday over the pirate-infested Gulf of Aden off Somalia, the Defense Ministry said. The aircraft is one of two P-3Cs dispatched last month on the first overseas mission by MSDF patrol planes. They are supporting the two MSDF destroyers that have been patrolling for pirates in the gulf since late March. The P-3Cs will gather information on suspicious ships to pass on to the destroyers and the commercial vessels they escort. The information will also be conveyed to navy vessels from other countries operating in the area, according to the ministry. After arriving in Djibouti late last month, the P-3Cs had been conducting training flights. The aircraft are using the international airport in Djibouti as their operational base. The destroyers have been escorting Japanese-related commercial vessels.

11 comments:

Selection of the Typhoon might be a smart choice in more than one way.

First, Japan would receive an aircraft, that would hold an edge over chinese jets for the time being. Growth potential is absolutely there, with AESA capabilities ready for introduction with tranche 3.

Second, the significantly lower price compared to an export version of the Raptor (speculated to be at 250 million $ per unit) plus an arguably much greater degree of ToT would enable Japan to fund a next generation indigenous fighter-program plus include know-how. The japanese defence budget will come under pressure and procurement of the F-22 (at any cost) might not benefit Japans security interests in the long-term.

If the whole procurement would be designed to field the Typhoon primarily in the A2A-role plus buying F-35 for strike purposes, this would leave Japan with an extremely capable force mix plus reaffirming US-japanese ties.

to friends

to be honest japan is a gay country,they have no choises except to buy from US only,US will push its F18E and if this hapens typhoon is out for sure

as u all know what happened in s.korea,singapore

now most of people say the air to ground capabilities of russian jet are nothing but question and russian jets are not stealthy

see this aircraft how stealthy is this typhoon when carrying external paylaod,same amount of payload mig35 can also carry

and mig35 doesn't need laser targeting pod becoz its got targeting irst on air intake which can guide opetical guided bomb

but the same israeli litening 2 targeting pod on typhoon shown here can be used in mig35 as well

i agree with anon that korea/japan/singapore cannot think of any other aircraft other than usa,but we should also be aware of the fact that usa is 'protecting' these countries and hence they have a obligation to buy usa defence products whether they like it or not,but other se asian countries like malaysia/indonesia have started to buy non usa defence products.

US 'protecting' these countries
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from whom????

i think u mean china/n korea but u better think again

there is no credible ABM in world or for that matter which US can provide these countries which can destroy nuke tipped missiles

and in this world no one is protecting no one

look at japanes and s.korean defence budgets which are high as heavens and US isn't providing military hardware for free or neither its subsidized and its hell costly,

so same equipment can be bought from some other country in the same price what these countries have to pay to US

and the meaning of protection is totally different thing when there is certain assuarity that US would consider attack on s.korea or japan on its own but US never said that

so if this is the position both japan and s korea better allow other to sell their equipemnt as well

and both skorea and japan have to protect themselves with the equipment they bough from US

"see this aircraft how stealthy is this typhoon when carrying external paylaod,same amount of payload mig35 can also carry"

The EF has arguably better RCS-reduction than the Mig-35, since the whole airframe is actually up-to-date in basic materials used. The Mig-35 is just a retrofit of an airframe that dates back to the 1970s (I am talking about development here, not conception which dates back even further), its hardly in the same league.

As for the payload, both AC carry around six tons (the EF can actually carry half a ton more), but the EF has four more hardpoints increasing flexibility substantially) and it still has a 40 % range advantage.

"and mig35 doesn't need laser targeting pod becoz its got targeting irst on air intake which can guide opetical guided bomb"

This is misleading. The IRST on the Mig is still a pod, just not attached to the normal hardpoints, but in a separate place under the air intake as to increase hardpoint availability. It does not come with the AC but has to be ordered as an extra option. Since the EF still has four more hardpoints to spare compared to the Mig, the Mig is still at a disadvantage.

to para above

we are talking about rcs when typhoon has external payload not when clean

when typhoon has these external payload how stealthy is this aircraft

u compared rcs of typhoon with mig35 when typhoon is clean no external payload which increases RCS

and for external hard points mig35 has 9 hardpoints

and 9 hardpoints are enough to carry 6 500kg lgb +fuel tank +2 WVR missiles and this is the general configuration for air to ground stirke and same has been shown on typhoon

yes typhoon has better rcs reduction but its worth to think haw stealthy is this aircraft or for that matter rafale,f18e when carrying external payload

but considering the price of typhoon over 122 million one can buy mig35 for 40 million

u r right as well all systems are better in typhoon compared to mig35

so the gap of 80 million is enough to fly mig35 for 12-13 years and extra money has to be spent on flying typhoon for the same period in addtion to its intial price that is 122 million

"we are talking about rcs when typhoon has external payload not when clean "

The Typhoon features four hull-conformal hardpoints at the centerline, used for AMRAAM/Meteor missiles. So even with a moderate A2A-load it overcomes the RCS-disadvantage to a certain degree. Its not as good as internal weapon bays but certainly better than conventional hardpoints.

"and 9 hardpoints are enough to carry 6 500kg lgb +fuel tank +2 WVR missiles and this is the general configuration for air to ground stirke and same has been shown on typhoon"

Nine hardpoints are certainly enough to use up the weapons load, however more hardpoints simply means more flexibility, especially in strike missions and with todays small "smart" ammunitions like the SDB and such. Therefore more hardpoints substantially increase strike-capability.

"so the gap of 80 million is enough to fly mig35 for 12-13 years and extra money has to be spent on flying typhoon for the same period in addtion to its intial price that is 122 million"

The price quoted for Typhoons varies greatly. Pure fly-away prices usually come in at 75-80 mln $, so the 122 mln number is off by some degree. The german luftwaffe for example pays about 120 mln $ for its jets, however these projections already include some training and spares.

Also note that the Mig historically might be low-cost in procurement, but substantial operating costs are being generated due to lower engine-life and higher maintenance demands.

I wont put up a number here, but these costs can be substantial, especially over a service life of 15 to 20 years. There is a reason why russian jets and their engines usually mark flying-hours substantially lower than modern western AC. The Typhoon was developed for a service life of at least 30 years (assuming standard NATO flying hours per year).

I am not biased against russian technology, its simply an observation of development philosophies as far as the Mig-29-family is concerned. Export-success for the Mig-29 and its sub-types compared to the Sukhoi-family speaks for itself.

Also note that the Mig historically might be low-cost in procurement, but substantial operating costs are being generated due to lower engine-life and higher maintenance demands.-
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this has changed and the current mig35 has 2.5 times lower operating cost than original mig35

and russian engines have lower life but they are 3 times cheaper too

I agree about the improvements. Mig claims 4000 flight hours for the RD-33MK engine. I am sceptical though, based on my knowledge of Mig-29-engines. They seem to have improved fuel consumption as well, even though the engine still uses 10-15% more fuel and offers 25% less thrust compared to the EJ200.

to para above
yup u r right

but again one can buy 2 rd 33 mk engines in price of ine ej2000

so more u pay more u get

but i think the rd3 engine in jf17 isn't somke free,it looks like its the old rd33 being fitted to jf17

while both rd33-3 and rd33mk are smoke free

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