Thursday, May 14, 2009

Israel Air Force practicing MIG-29/F-16 dogfights

Israel Air Force test pilots are flying MIG 29 jets and conducting dogfights against the IAF's F-16 fighters, Channel 2 revealed Wednesday evening.The MIG 29, developed by the soviets in the 1970s, is one of the best fighter jets used by eastern and Arab countries, as well as by Syria and Iran. It was developed to counter American-made jets such the F-16 or F/A-18. The jets were loaned to Israel by an unnamed foreign country. The experiment is meant to prepare IAF pilots for missions where they might have to fight a foreign air-force. "We tested them - we trained the IAF pilots against them," an unnamed IAF official said. The IAF employs ten test pilots. The training of each costs about a million dollars, but the experience gleaned from the test pilots, the unnamed official said, "is priceless." "You fly in places and in certain conditions in a way never attempted before," an unidentified test pilot said. "Once, a piece of the jet's body broke during an experiment but the crew managed to land it safely." A test jet is just like a regular one, except for special sensors which cover literally every aspect of its mechanical and electronic systems and can be monitored from the ground for assessment. An additional experiment conducted recently by the air force involved loading an F-16 with weapons to its utmost capacity, or "flight in a heavy formation," as the test pilot labeled it. The experiment was meant to measure the pilot's safety and the fighter's capability when it was carrying the maximum amount of armaments. A jet so armed might be used in a long-distance sortie. The pilots interviewed would not name which foreign countries might be the targets of such sorties, but it was clear the main target of such an ambitious mission would be Iran's nuclear installations.


oh!lingers on the mind of Israel against Iran

its not easy to go against IRAN and destroy its nuclear facilities,and why western countries oppose s300 sale ,

just think israel is most heavily armed country in that region ,they have arrow,patriot,many more even nukes

israelis have largest air force in that region,

they have no right to oppose s300 sale and this system is totally defensive


there is voting going on for WHICH IS MOST CAPABLE 4+ GEN FIGHTER


The IAF used Mig-29 for training purposes many times before. The first picture is a testament to this, it depicts a german Mig-29 (former east-german NVA inventory) from Luftwaffe Squadron 73. This picture is at least four years old, since the Fulcrums were decommissioned from german service in 2004.

Its only sensible to train against the very aircraft you may have to fight and that is not limited to Iran or Syria (although they may be most likely candidates at the moment).


To Anonymous @ May 15, 2009 5:44 AM

My mistake


asian defence

To Anonymous @ May 15, 2009 5:44 AM

My mistake
there should be the actual price of aircraft price as well

To Anonymous @ May 18, 2009 1:00 PM

Prices could be very deceiving just for example in 1990s PAF decided to buy 32 Mirage-2000-5 @ cost of 3.2B$ but that deal involved 10 year package of complete maintaince and weaponry(something like Australian F/A-18E/F), on the other hand Indians might deal might not involve similar package. Adding to that will be maintance costs that will have huge impact on the overall costs for whole life cycle and most of the time these jets get customized like Su-30MKI and Su-30MKM so we decided to that it is better to compare capability first and then we can go for best value for money.

to asian denfece

Adding to that will be maintance costs that will have huge impact on the overall costs for whole life cycle and most of the time these jets get customized like Su-30MKI and Su-30MKM so we decided to that it is better to compare capability first and then we can go for best value for money.
you are right as well

but a mig35 with aesa radar and advanced sensors comes at price of $ 40million
typhoon comes at $ 125 million
rafale comes at $ 70-80 million
f15sg/se comes at $ 100 million
su35 bm with irbis e comes at $ 70 million

f18e comes at $ 56 million
(don't know why boeing reduced price from $ 80 million at which aussies bought)
irbis e radar outclasses apg79,apg80,amsar,
rbe2 aesa,apg63(v3) in range

and optical sensors are equally good on rafale,typhoon,su35bm

now su35bm equipped with 14 air to air missiles
with longest range on internal fuel(never seen su30,35 ever need external fuel tanks)

compared to 8 air to air missiles for typhoon
12 on f18e
and 8 on rafale
now one can buy 3 mig35 for price of 1 typhoon
2 mig35 can be bought for price of 1 rafale

so 1 typhoon with amsar isn't better than 3 mig35

and 1 rafale with rbe2 aesa isn't better than 2 mig35

and one can buy 2 su30mki for the price of 1 typhoon,so 1 typhoon isn't better than 2 su30mki

su35bm only bettered by f15se

but f15se not available to everyone

su35bm available to everyone with hiccups

and f16 isn't cheap either

morocco bought 24 f16blk52 with apg69(v9)for
$ 2.4 billion which included taining maintaince anf ground support and assotiated accessories

and $ 155 million was extra for weapons

so a f16 blk52 cost them $ 100 million per aircraft
now turkey which already has f16 and trained personnel,infrastructure and has licensed produced f16 at home

turkey bought 30 f16blk52 for (apg69 v9)for the price of $ 1.9 billion recently

now this comes out to be $ 60 million per aircraft which has no aesa compared to $ 40 million for mig35 which has aesa

even india bought 40 more su30mki for the price of $ 2.2 billion or $ 55 million per su30mki,and india also has infrastructure and trained personnel

so su30mki is cheaper and better than f16blk50/52 in all aspects and still cheaper than f16 blk80

now recently vietnam bought 12 su30 aircraft for $ 500 million or $ 40 million for each su30 fitted bigger version of zhuk me radar
and this also includes training and ground based infrastucture,and su30 is better than all f16 varients

so tell me isn't the price matters and main thing is availability of hardware,

please don't compare the operating cost of su30 with f18e,rafale,typhoon,

one su30 does the work of 2 f18e,rafale,typhoon alone on very long range missions,at very long range missiions su30 need not to carry external fuel tanks and can carry full 12 missile payload ,while f18e,rafale,typhoon need to carry external fuel this reduces number of hardpoints and fuel tanks increase drag and lower speed

and yes there is no subsitute for clean intrnal fuel

so all this story tell which fighter is superior to other

f16 can be compared with mig 29 but
not su 30,f15 se,F/A-18 & Shenyang J-11.
What matters is which fighter built for what?.

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