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Israel Aerospace Industries is showing a full-scale mockup of the Barak 8 surface to air missile (SAM) for the first time at the IMDEX maritime defense show, which opened in Singapore today. Being co-developed with India, Barak 8 is also destined to equip Israel's next missile frigates, possibly based on the US Littoral Combat Ship. (A mockup without the full-length missile was on show at Euronaval last fall.)
23 comments:
The full-scale mockup of the Barak 8 was displayed at Aero India 2009 as well. People often confuse it with Durby because of its apparent similarities. However at 4.55m length, 225mm dia and 275kg its an all new missile. Less publicized is its tri mode seeker. The IR sensor can be seen at its nose tip in this image-
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9651/b8ms7.jpg
What I am eager to see is the longer range version(120km).
AD, have you seen any image of Barak NG (120km)
Looks like it will be quite a capable missile. The IR seeker (if it is imaging infrared) will give it a ABM capability similar to SM-3.
It is of the size and class of PAC3 not SM3. The seeker is indeed state of the art. IR and ARH fused into one.
to anon at 4.26 AM
there are no IR seekers just active seeker
its got range of just 70km and operating altitude of just 20km
and THERE IS NO MENTION OF SPEED OF MISSILE anywhere which is critical
and india wants MRSAM for thier air force as well and the same missile will go into air force with similar operating range and altitude which i mentioned above
and what capability it brings compared to russian s400 and s300 pmu2 as ABM
anyway s400 also got new L band GAMMA DE radar
70 km range isn't enough nowdays when anti radiation missiles have range of over 100km along with speed of mach4
and supersonic antiship missiles can be launched from well outside the engagement range of barak-8
well sm-2 and aster30 are superior to this and longer range missiles available from russia as well wit hrange of 200km along with mach 5 speed and operating altitude of 30 km
this is co development right ,but what india is doing in this,i mean israeli MFSTAR aesa S BAND radar,israeli seeker,israeli missile guidance along with israeli solid fuel motor and controls
to anon and ASIAN DEFENCE
What I am eager to see is the longer range version(120km)
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ther is no 120km range air force version just the 70km range missile will be inducted in air force
any way this missile suites only israeli requirements and range of missile was decreased for benefits of israel
some people think this missile will works as ABM for india which is totally wrong
israeli use arrow ABM as primary ABM system which can go upto 90km altitude
if this engagement fails then they have patriot missile which can engage missiles upto 30km
if this engagement fails then they have last option BARAK-8 which can engage missiles upto 20km
so they have 3 layered ABM configuration
and thats why MRSAM range was decreased to meet israeli demends
but think again does india has 3 layered ABM, i don't think so
and some people think it will serve as ABM in india as well, just bullshit
and even for naval version range of missile is just 70km which is too short when aster30 with range of 120km and SM-2 with range of 160km are available
even SM-6 is in developent and will be available by 2014-15 about the same time of naval barak-8
TO Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 2:25 AM
I haven’t seen the model of the Barak-8LR yet
TO Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 2:25 AM
TO Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 3:16 AM
TO Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 4:26 AM
Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 5:13 AM is right that Barak-8 MR-SAM it will have only an active radar for terminal guidance.
When Isreal will under attack through the use of ballistic missiles , they will respond by multiple launches of arrow ABM and then Patriot ABM.
Integrating three different kind of missiles in ABM system is not an easy task and beside that Barak-8 won’t be able to provide anything more than Patriot -
to asian defence
Integrating three different kind of missiles in ABM system is not an easy task and beside that Barak-8 won’t be able to provide anything more than Patriot
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even patriot is more capable
the speed of all missiles is known and patriot has speed of mach 5,with three times the oprating range and better operating altitude compared to barak-8
and speed of rusisan SAM systems reaching mach7
and for BARAK-8 its speed not been described
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and barak-1 has speed of only mach 1.7 with range of 10km
while aster 15 has mach 3 speed with 30km range
and tor missile has speed of mach 2.8 with 10km range
so one can just guess which missile is better than other
To AD, Anon@May 14, 2009 5:13 AM:
I am not an amateur and I cant confuse an IR sapphire dome for anything else. I doubt you have a better explanation for what is shown in the image whose link I posted above. IAI has collaborated previously with Thales for a similar seeker for Stunner missile.
As for integrating three different types of missiles, Israel will in fact be integrating five layers of missile defense.
1. Arrow3/SM3 (Exo-Atmosphere)
2. PAC3/Barak 8 (Endo-Atmosphere)
3. Stunner (70km to 200km BMs)
4. Tamir (Iron Dome)
5. CIWS (Phalanx or Laser based)
Barak 8 has the advantage of being a 2 stage missile which PAC3 is not with obvious gain in range and agility. Though Barak 8 speed is not advertised however IAI has consistently claimed Barak 8 as superior to PAC3, which has a speed of Mach 5.12
source:http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Ballistic-Missiles/Patriot-PAC-3_a001152003.aspx
These are confirmed figures of agility of various missile systems available from their respective OEMs.
Aster 15 : 64g
S-400 9M96E : 40g
VL-Mica : 50g
Barak 8 : 80g (owing to second stage kicking off in terminal phase having PIF-PAF thrusters similar to Aster and THAAD, see circle between the front fins in the image)
The naval variant is Barak 8 or MR-SAM which is different to IAF variant called Barak NG or LR-SAM. Though the media is thoroughly confused with Barak nomenclature.
Aster 15 : 64g
S-400 9M96E : 40g
VL-Mica : 50g
Barak 8 : 80g
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there is no antiship missile or cruiise or ballistic missile manouvers at 80 g while being at subsonic,supersonic or hypersonic speeds,these missiles hardly cross 15g
so 80g of barak 8 are irrelevent
only within visual range air to air missiles manouver at high G
and it appears to be a IR seeker on tip but it is not it just shadow
if that was to be IR seeker you are tlking about
it would have bigger much bigger than it appears
and for LRSAM it doen't exixt only thing exixt is MRSAM,and rage of missile for air force version was decresed to 70 km only
High g is required for Hit to Kill capability. High g even at a relatively lower speed can compensate for low g maneuver by a very high speed BM to achieve HTK. This allows the ABM to intercept BMs significantly faster to itself.
Try this on paper with with a BM and ABM heading towards each other on a straight line. If the faster BM makes a say 10g turn. How many g the slower ABM should pull to meet the BM?
Look at the size of IR seeker on AIM 9X which is a missile with a dia of 14cm.
http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/aim-9x.jpg
Barak 8 is 22.5cm dia. Even more compact IR sensor is possible here as it need not have high off-bore sight capability, with the ARH seeker being the primary sensor.
Its clearly not a shadow, and has a blunt nose. Compare it to any number of missile images as you like.
If LR-SAM or Barak NG doesn't exist then what is this-
http://defense-update.com/images_new/barak_ng.jpg
Why have two different aerodynamic designs if navy and IAF versions are of the same range?
Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 7:58 AM
i do agree with your points and i have already said that Barak-8 won’t be able to provide anything more than Patriot in ABM
And USA have offered SM-3 to replace the development effort of Arrow ie duplication of money and effort.
Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 9:27 PM is right about the g limits
Please see the g limits of AAD
Anonymous @ May 14, 2009 10:46 AM
I never called you amateur and neither did I ever say that IAI is not capable of doing so, but even if you have the ability it does not mean that you will put everything in one package. It does depends only one
All I know that Barak-8 MR will have active radar guidance
I think that this should help you clear you thoughts
This is the brochure for the IAI site
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/2/35042.pdf
Active Radar Seeker Missile
Barak -8 MR is 70 km version and Barak-8 NG or Barak-8 LR are same names for 120km version
Barak-8 LR/NG will not be the same as Barak-8MR
There are two ways to increase the range
One used in spyder-MR/LR SAM i.e. add rocket booster
Second is to alter the aerodynamics and increase the length of missile, given the level of investment India had announced and the picture you are referring I think that they have opted for the second option, so control surface at the nose of the Barak 8 MR will be replaced with fins at the mid section of Barak LR/NG and the missile can expected to be slightly longer.
to harpreet
the picture link u gave above shows barak NG for both sea and land
it means missile will have 70km range for both naval and land version
and yes there is only one seeker that is active seeker as posted in IAI website
MFSTAR is fully isareli ,india will just license produce it ,and there is no tech tranfer for seekers,datalink
and if india can build rohini radar which is enough to support 70 km SAM
and if india can build propulsion motor,dual pulse unit,navigation ,C3I system,launchers so what else is remaining
so it shows every thing incluing 150km range radar available in india
so why not just procure seekers,data link OFF THE SHELF from israel or for that matter europe or russia,and why their is need to go with israelis when everything else available in india except seeker and guidance(no tech transfer for these)
and seeker and guidance anyway has to be bought off the shelf despite deal is called codevelopment
so why not procure seekers and guidance off the shelf and do everything else in india ,so what is the need to go with israel
core tech elements are seekers and guidance for which there is no tech transfer and no country will agree to this
and some people say this
Russian, MBDA missiles are good, but specialised and available off the shelf
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russia has allowed china to build s300pmu2 with tech transfer
russia is negotiating with turkey to sell s400 system with 100% tech tranfer
so it is likely that if india buys this system or s3xx ,tech transfer won't be problem except seekers and guidance
To Anon@5:52 AM: IN has declared its intent to deploy Barak NG on its ACs.This is apart from Barak 8 to be used on other surface combatants. So Barak NG will be used by both IN and IAF. Just as IAF can as well choose to use both the systems.
Surely Barak 8-
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9651/b8ms7.jpg
and Barak NG-
http://defense-update.com/images_new/barak_ng.jpg
are not the same.
Israelis usually don't publish enough official documentation like others do nor do they bother to update their websites as often. I trusted the Barak 8 brochure until I saw Barak 8 prototype image and I am inclined to trust my eyes.
There was also an interview of an IAI official describing the multi mode seeker development for Barak 8. I am trying to re-trace the source.
Anonymous @ May 15, 2009 6:57 PM
as i said earlier, according to my information Barak-8 MR will have Active Radar Seeker Missile, but I am open to correction
Keep us updated when you get that link
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