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President Asif Ali Zardari has asked the United States to provide drone technology and other necessary equipment to help Pakistan fight terrorists more effectively and rejected the notion of American personnel joining the anti-terror fight on the Pakistani soil. “I need drones to be part of my arsenal. I need that facility. I need that equipment. I need that to be my police arrangement,” Zardari told CNN in an interview, ahead of his bilateral talks with the U.S. President Barack Obama and a tripartite summit engaging Afghanistan also Wednesday. The Pakistani leader said the request has already been made to the Obama Administration. “We’re still in dialogue. They haven’t disagreed, but they haven’t agreed,’ the President added. “I will request this from the United States to give it a thought that if we own them, then we take out our targets rather than somebody else coming and doing it for us,’ Zardari emphasized. “I’m open to the fact that we need more equipment, we need more intelligence equipment, we need intelligence support, but not personnel. I don’t think personnel are necessary, they’ll be counterproductive,’ he said, when asked if he would be willing to welcome US forces in Pakistan.
President Zardari said that the violent insurgency in Pakistan’s northwestern areas near the Afghan border does not pose a threat to his government. “They’re not threats to my government. They are threats to my security. They are a threat to ... my Army, my police, yes.” Zardari said of Taliban militants’ recent gains. “My government is not going to fall when one mountain is taken by one group or the other,” the Pakistani leader added. When asked about the possibility of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling in the hands of militants, Zardari stressed: “They are in safe hands.” “We have a 700,000 (troop) army—how can they take over?” Responding to another question, he said he wants peace with India and hopes for new dialogue after India completes its national elections.”Democracies have never gone to war,” Zardari said. “We have always wanted peace. We still want peace with India,” he said. “I’m waiting for the elections (in India) to be over so all this rhetoric is over and I can start a fresh dialogue with the Indian government.” “I’m looking at the markets of India for the industrialists of Pakistan and hoping to do the same (for the other side),” Zardari said.
President Zardari said that the violent insurgency in Pakistan’s northwestern areas near the Afghan border does not pose a threat to his government. “They’re not threats to my government. They are threats to my security. They are a threat to ... my Army, my police, yes.” Zardari said of Taliban militants’ recent gains. “My government is not going to fall when one mountain is taken by one group or the other,” the Pakistani leader added. When asked about the possibility of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling in the hands of militants, Zardari stressed: “They are in safe hands.” “We have a 700,000 (troop) army—how can they take over?” Responding to another question, he said he wants peace with India and hopes for new dialogue after India completes its national elections.”Democracies have never gone to war,” Zardari said. “We have always wanted peace. We still want peace with India,” he said. “I’m waiting for the elections (in India) to be over so all this rhetoric is over and I can start a fresh dialogue with the Indian government.” “I’m looking at the markets of India for the industrialists of Pakistan and hoping to do the same (for the other side),” Zardari said.
28 comments:
Doesn't Pakistan have its own drones, why do they need the Predator? Or do they want to do the same thing US is doing by striking targets from armed drones? Is this wise considering Pakistan has been complaining about unacceptable collateral damage and civilian casualties resulting by this strategy.
Even a kid can understand that Pak is trying to kill 2 birds in one shot. With this move they want to stop the US drone attack and secondly they can use these advanced drones against India instead of using against Taliban
Pakistan doesn’t have armed Drones and biggest problem in fight with Taliban is real time intelligence and action. Currently Pakistan is unable to target in real-time as it needs to send cobra or F-16 form bases one credible information is available and by the time they reach the target area target is usually gone. Second reason is with US drone attacks there is sever political fallout i.e. anti US propaganda that helps Taliban’s in raising more then what were killed as Taliban’s claims that they are fighting against USA i.e. foreign power, but same excuse can’t be used one Pakistan start using Armed drones.
USA if agreed will stop drones in its own benefit not for Pakistan as they are realizing that more they kill more Taliban rise and they have already tried this format from last three four years and things are going from bad to worse for them. Any weapon can be used against India and Pakistan has never hidden their intention of doing so. But the question is What USA will choose Indian security or security of their own troops in Afghanistan and mind you that their ability to save Afghanistan from falling in Taliban hands do depends upon the support of Pakistan. And my view is USA cares more about the death toll of its troops than anything else including India. Now as far as Armed UAV are concerned , China is already testing two to three types of UAV and in few years they will end up in Pakistan. Lastly Pakistan itself have started project to develop armed UAV that will be operational in next few years.
Pakistan needs to fight the Taliban for its own sake an not for welfare of the Afghans or the Americans. And Pakistan needs do do it without the drones, ballistic jackets, night vision or anything else US may or may not provide.
What most Pakistanis don't understand while complaining about the problems caused to them by US war on terror is that if they cannot stop terrorist from abusing Pakistan's territory against other nations, then they better stop drumming about their sovereignty as the foreign powers will move in to protect their interest. This is what is happening in the form of US drone attacks.
BTY do the Chinese give any s*** to their MTCR obligations. Armed long range drones like Predator are considered similar to cruise missiles. That's why US can sell F16s but not Predators to Pakistan even if they want to.
* And Pakistan needs to do it with or without the drones, ballistic jackets, night vision or anything else US may or may not provide.
Again USA isn’t doing all the help for sake of Pakistan but to save itself (remember they have to spend many times more on their soldiers in Afghanistan) as they don’t want to be an other USSR
Now as far as other nations are concerned (Other than USA) well things are more simple, they don’t have the ability take such action inside Pakistan as was shown in aftermaths of Mumbai attacks where India with all the tough talk and weaponry failed to launch attacks against Pakistan and its general confirmed that India was not capable of doing so. USA is a super power and at the same time has huge aid and political influence that allowed it to be more aggressive and lunch limited drone attacks with consent of Mr Musharaf as these drones were flown from inside Pakistan. It is the public opposition and rise of hate against USA in Pakistan due to which USA is under pressure to stop attacks along with the fact that these attacks proved not so effective killing 14 targets and around 700+ civilians as they were supposed to be.
Then perhaps USA should stop crying and fight its own war which it can’t as they are afraid of body bags and their impact on US voters. There is no way USA can win this war without Pakistan and that’s why they have change their stance after the election and are now offering 500m$ in military aid
As far as drones equal to the cruise missiles statement is concerned, Pakistan already has impressive number of operational cruise missiles in its inventory in form of Babur GLCM. Raad ALCM and H-4 ALCM, so they don’t need these drones to make cruise missiles. Secondly India, Turkey and many nations are getting similar drones from USA and Israel and there is nothing that has been done, so there is noting that can be done to stop china from selling which USA itself is dong. Check you facts as USA is already selling Predators to many countries and MTCR wasn’t build for Pakistan only and they haven’t signed it too
Lastly why should Pakistan fight and let its solders be killed in an effort to save someone else’s face?
If Pakistan is so confident of India's inability to strike them then why so much resistance to redeploying troops from the eastern front to the lawless west.
Q: why should Pakistan fight and let its solders be killed in an effort to save someone else’s face?
Ans: Because only that someone can keep Pakistan from defaulting on its debit which would get them labeled as a "Failed State" on the UN register. See baggers cant be choosers...
* beggers
They are not doing as this gives them leverage to get more before doing more.
With exercises at border India provides them perfect excuse to keep the fully armed forces at border with India and less equipped Paramilitary forces to fight Taliban’s and get funds to equip them
But you are seeing that that is not the case they are getting both military and civil aid (more than two billion a year) from US so you point is invalid here
So Pakistan needs to be bribed to defend its own people. While Taliban was on rampage in Swat shutting down girls schools and enforcing their own idea of justice, Pakistan was using Indian excuse to keep the fully armed forces at border with India and less equipped Paramilitary forces to fight Taliban’s. Unbelievable.
What is unbelievable how Indians get pissed up when they see any arms purchases to fight Indian funded terrorist groups in form of Taliban.
One side Indian putts hundreds of thousands of troops against the Pakistani border and are asking Pakistan to pull back? IN 2000 and in 2009 it was India that made threats and was forced to fall back due to Pakistan’s capability
If America is providing Pakistan weaponry why India start pissing
Still Pakistan is much better then India which needs to kill its all the minorities to cover its army’s involvement in terrorist attacks
Amazing how Pakistanis manage to live in denial, just like their generals despite the facts staring them in the face.
Taliban is funded by India! 9-11 was a Hindu,jewish conspiracy! Taliban may have taken over Swat but its a US problem! Pakistan with its $3-4 billion defense budget is stronger to India despite its $29 billion defense budget. Kashmir elections are a farce despite their internationally acclaimed success! Terrorism in Kashmir was indigenous despite violence dropping by over 90% following Pak-India cease-fire on LOC following 9-11!
India has successfully fought insurgency for over two decades and has emerged stronger than ever before. It is Pak army that is pissing after two years of fighting taliban. The hell they are trained to fight India, some fancy. Why dont Pakistanis do some introspection as to why their nation is in such a sorry state while India is growing by leaps and bounds.
Why wont India redeploy army in maoist infested areas, Only paramilitaries are deployed there. Why wont India defend its Tribal people from Maoists and naxals. Even in Assam ULFA is allowed room to operate. Look at yourself instead of chatting crap. There are many insurgencies in India, so therefore why they fighting if India is rich and happy?
India doesn't beg other to help them fight their wars and India has never made any BS peace deal abdicating to the terrorist.
Pakistan has an unbelievable attitude, not only they think of taliban(while it is occupying pak territory) as a US problem but they think they are doing some favor to the US and hence are eligible for compensation.
AD, are you sure the armed variant of Predator has been exported. Because I am sure India doesn't have any armed drones. Even Israeli acquired Heron are only for surveillance.
Well let me say that it is not very simple matter like two individuals, in case of countries they have interest that they try to protect and at the same time they try to take advantages of the opportunities that arise and Pakistan is doing the same. Israel is fighting its war but still gets aid and even still uses the Holocaust to get military and civilian aid. This is simply the way world works.
Now back to the issue Just heard the news that Pakistani prime minister have ordered the Pakistani Army to move in to SWAT area and my sources are now confirmeing that AlZarar tanks are being sent into the area for precision plus day night attack capability
The Pentagon is requesting 130 billion dollars for missions overseas, including 65 billion for Afghanistan and 61 billion for Iraq.First time spending for the seven-year-old Afghan campaign has surpassed the one in Iraq.
. Perhaps this will clear why USA is more than willing to provide aid to Pakistan for getting its help.The Obama administration will provide about dollar one billion economic and security assistance to Pakistan on immediate basis- dollar 500 million economic and dollar 497 military assistance
Indians have an issue they like to post negatvity on every article regarding Pakistan and China. Can they just refrain their hate and just speak sensible.
Go to international defence forums they always gloating about the foreign purchases they make. They belittle China for making its own weapons by calling the rip offs, without relising their own defence establishment is in a worse state, despite having help from Americans, Isrealis, Russians etc. They bellittle Pak but dont relise Indian poverty levels are not much better the Pak. Human Development is similiar to Pakistan.
AD, sticking to the issue you still haven't answered if the armed variant of Predator has been exported. To the best of my knowledge and what I could explore in the net no armed drones that fall in MTCR limits are being exported (Predator has unarmed variants that have been exported).
Now that tanks are burning, troops are being ambushed and tens of thousands of people are being displaced what do you think of your theory of Pakistan using India excuse to deploy less equipped Paramilitary forces to fight Taliban’s and get funds to equip them. Was $ 497 assistance for the Paramilitary worth this?
You talked of Israelis but have you considered how much they value lives of their citizens. Compare that to the strategy you say Pakistan has employed.
Type99, They were Pakistani patriots who started this pissing game. There was no need to drag this debate into murky waters. I had posted a simple query pertaining to legal implications of Pakistan's demand on drones and the logic behind it given their resistance to use of such standoff weapons in counter-insurgency situations.
To Anonymous @ May 8, 2009 6:57 AM
My friend just check what are the unarmed designations of predator verses designations that this been exported and you will get the answer yourself and what about the export of the MQ-9??
When I talk about the paramilitary forces being used, I was mainly talking about the Tribal areas and yes you are right Israelis do take care of their citizens and there is co compression between two here but that don’t change the fact they still play the holocaust and victim card for the aid. This was just an example of how different countries take the advantage of the opportunities that arise. You see in case of countries they don’t act like individuals especially the developing one
Now coming to the point of how I feel about the use of paramilitary forces use after the current acceleration in the conflict, well first let me say that operation is in SWAT area and Pakistani PM has called Pakistani army to conduct operation so it not paramilitary forces and they are using the tanks etc. secondly these $ 497 million is for this year alone and this is aid they are getting when they are now solving their own problems. You see tactic was to delay this action till USA start feeling the heat and USA is ready to change its stance of matters like no military aid, no military weapons sales, baking off form F-16 deals and longer term commitment to Pakistan’s development. You can see they have been able to achieve this objective by delaying the current action by a month or so. Now USA agree for more civilian aid with little strings attached, renewed military aid, acceptance of the fact that F-16 is necessary for WOT, kind of FTA for NWFP etc . Now coming to the cost of human life factor, well friend this is the cost they have to bear in any case be it with USA’s support or not, but in case of US’s support this cost goes down economically and militarily.
AD, I have no objections to US selling predator to Pakistan. I was mere trying to investigate US reluctance on this issue. Here is what I have found-
1)MTCR is an informal and voluntary partnership between 34 countries to prevent the proliferation of missile technology.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_Technology_Control_Regime
2)The Missile Technology and Control Regime (MTCR) restricts the export of UCAV technologies outside the MTCR community
Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/5441221/Unmanned-Combat-Air-Vehicles
3)The MTCR also limits the possibility of exporting UAVs and UCAVs with ranges of of 300 km or more regardless of the payload capacity.
Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activities/committees/studies/download.do?file=19483
*I was merely trying to investigate US reluctance and Pakistan's interest on this issue.
To Anonymous @ May 9, 2009 1:11 AM
Well I never said that there is no such clause, what is said that it is never implemented and followed by the major players. If USA want provide Predator they will and they can always play around such clauses on the other hand if they don’t want to provide predators to Pakistan they have lot more leverage so they don’t need to hide behind this clause.
I had a talk with one of the high ranking official who was part of the arms negotiation in Mr. Musharaf’s era and did asked about the Predator’s purchase from USA, his response was that almost every weapon they have asked for was fist rejected on the basis that it can be used by the Pakistan against India and when they were able to purchase similar weapon or were near to a deal with some other country then USA would say ok we will provide you with this weapon. He says that Pakistan was very close to signing seal for helicopters from Russia when USA agreed to provide cobra gunship and other transport helicopter and same is the case with the F-16s where possibility of Pakistan air force getting Mirage-2000-5MK-II and J-10 resulted in change in mind.
Now in future Pakistan has many options like the purchase of Chinese system in next few years off the shelf or Tusas Aerospace Industries (TAI) developing a medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the Turkish armed forces in class of predator and Pakistan is helping turkey in this project. They can use this option. Third option is to go for local system which is already in development and might be using local, Chinese or Turkish missiles. But all these options will take time and capability is need now. You can find more about this in report by the By Usman Ansari I have just posted
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