Friday, December 11, 2009

Israel has offered to upgrade IAF Mirage-2000 aircraft at low prices


Israel is close to swinging an order to upgrade French-origin Mirage 2000 aircraft with the Indian Air Force (IAF) despite France’s charm offensive in hosting the Indian military on the Champs Elysees. Tel Aviv has offered to upgrade the frontline fighter aircraft, of which the IAF has three squadrons, at rates nearly 40 per cent less than the price quoted by the French.

Israel, whose chief of defence staff returns to Tel Aviv after visiting New Delhi this week for the first time since diplomatic relations were established in 1992, is also favoured to win an order for 18 quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs) from the Indian Army that could cost more than Rs 2,000 crore.

The possible loss of the Mirage 2000 upgrade bid will hurt the French the most.In July this year, France had hosted Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and, in a rare honour, contingents of the Indian armed forces led the Bastille Day parade. Last week, French defence minister Herve Morin was in New Delhi courting the Indian defence establishment.

Early next month, President Nicolas Sarkozy could be back in India with wife Carla Bruni whom he has promised to take to Taj Mahal. Sarkozy visited India in January last year minus Carla.

Defence ministry sources said the delegation led by Israeli defence services chief, General Gabi Ashkenazi, made presentations to the top brass, including the chief of air staff, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, on the Mirage 2000 upgrade that Israel Aircraft Industries would carry out in collaboration with other firms.

In back-of-the envelope calculations, the cost of the Israeli bid totals Rs 96 crore per aircraft while the French bid is worth Rs 152 crore. The IAF has at least 51 Mirage 2000s. The upgrade would include superior avionics and electronic warfare systems that would extend the service life of the aircraft by 15 years. Although French companies Dassault Aviation and Thales are the original equipment suppliers, the price quoted, say defence ministry sources, may be put to better use by ordering new aircraft.

The French have already beaten down prices and there is a possibility they will go even lower. They are keen that the deal be done at the time of Sarkozy’s visit, though similar hopes during Singh’s Paris visit in July were dashed. For the Spyder QR-SAM missile systems, the army may sign a contract within a month. The IAF has already contracted the Israelis for the systems.The close-range missile defence systems are meant as a protective shield for the army’s critical immovable assets.

Telegraph India


...How can Israil offer to update Mirage-2000 aircraft at low price when it does not produce any sort of Engine or other Body Parts for Mirage 2000.

As for the electronics or engines Americans or the Russians can only meet the Indian requirement

It is this Indian mantality whih has bought Indian Airforce to its knees both parties Israil and India want to make a quick buck.

are u experienced to say anyhting on this matter i doubt .avionics can be made by anybody, they have to be integrated in mirage 2000 thats it.
french are costly because they are the OEM.many of israeli airforce f16's have got israeli avionics which are of better performance than usa made ones.

..Any modification on American asserts sold under FMS is forbidden by American law.

Israil may have copied American Technology and may have fine tuned it to some extent.

But it cannot compeate with America or Russia who are way forward in Technology.

More over India is also in need for Technology transfer after paying USD41 Million to upgrade a platform more than 20 years old

Our adversery China/Pakistan are Buying brand new planes like
J11..USD 29-31 million
j10..Usd 27-28 million
jf 17 Thunder Pak version in around Usd 15 million
L-15 Eagle 6-8 Million USD
K-8 Karakuram Trainer 3.5 to 5 million USD
Suppose India gets a deal in tune 0f Usd 30 million per air craft on some upgraded israili Technology does not make sence.
Israil does not make or use Mirage 2000 and does not have any user experience on Mirage Structure

The problem with French M-53 Engine blades will arise.

Israil does not have qualification in both the jobs

As per track record of Israil most of hardware bought by India is in a dipleted condition.

Even the simple Fact to upgrade D-46 130mm Russian guns by Israil to 155 standard is being questioned by our own media as being faulty.

If the Israeli's say they can accomplish something, it has been my experience that they can! India can do worse then trust the Israelis to assist them in servicing their Mirage 2000's - and they will probably do a good job and under budget as well!
What remains to be seen is whether India and Indians have the competency to realise there is technology transfer to be had from these deals. As an example, perhaps learn from the Indian Navy's debacle with the Russian deal behind the Carrier acquisition? What I find fascinating about how the Chinese do business is the way they learn from their purchases (re acquirement of the Russian Carrier) and their subsequent reverse engineering and ultimate design and building of their own Carriers...

Israel had Mirages in their Air Force hence they know the basic design of this aircraft. Many Israeli companies are designing the avionics and other critical instruments for the prestigious F-35.

Israel had mirageIII aircrafts at one time but because of Israel jumping into the 6 days war the french denied them to give out mirages V which was specially built for Israel needs and they even stop giving the spare parts for the mirages III so the Israel started building their own parts for those planes so they even went up to an extent of reverse engineering those aircraft and the aircraft they built was Nesher and Kfir they even helped south african whom the french also denied to help to replace their parts of mirages III and the aircraft they built was Atlas Cheetah which is also reverse engineered from the mirageIII so Israel people definitely have some idea of upgrading mirage 2000

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